Feedback & Comments: 5/30/2020

AH Trimble Feedback and Comments

 

In response to my Immediate Action Warning this morning I received this passionate response…


OK, what exactly would be a correct response by government or individuals?
The police have abandoned large areas of several cities. They either can not or will not do anything. How many burglaries, assaults, robberies, rapes, and murders have been committed in the police no-go zones? How many scores settled?
Does this sound like France, Sweden, or Germany?

If troops, whether Guard or Regulars, are deployed (in spite of Posse Comitatus), will they have empty rifles?
For how many years was the traditional ROE for troops and civilians in disaster areas “You loot, we shoot”? Would you expect them to NOT shoot? Easy to say, if you are not in the line of men facing a mob. If not that, then what? Allow the mob to beat them down and take their select-fire weapons, or pull out and once again leave the streets and neighborhoods to the looters? No good choices, but which is worse?
Not making a choice is still a choice.
Civilians too will be quickly overwhelmed by sheer numbers unless they use deadly force, and at least one pawnshop owner (yes, a white guy) was arrested. After the arrest, the store was gutted. In law, in every jurisdiction I’m aware of, shooting to stop arson is a justifiable use of deadly force, as is the disparity of force of being faced by a mob. Apparently, MN has a “duty to retreat” law everywhere- except a domicile, so the choices for business owners are death, destitution, or jail.
https://heavy.com/news/2020/05/john-rieple/
How about these men, (who I’d side with and you will not find this on youtube)? Would they be arrested as quickly as the white pawn owner?
https://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/video.php?v=wshhhB2w3tSuRIVkX79A
Is the only alternative to simply leave the law-abiding at the mercy of the mob?
Just sayin’.
I wonder if the mayor and other members of the Minnesota Democratic Farmer Labor Party (yes really) have any idea what they are creating?
( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_Democratic%E2%80%93Farmer%E2%80%93Labor_Party)
Who will tolerate a place where the cops only arrest the basically law-abiding non-violent “offender”, and the citizens are not allowed to defend either their property or themselves. Governors and mayors of the progressive blue states cry about the flight of the tax base, as they become ever more greedy and tyrannical, but so far, their only solution is to demand more bailouts and blame Trump for their own failings.


A lengthy and provocative post to be sure. But, it is also a tough post to respond to based on a number of factors; 1) passion, 2) straw-man arguments, 3) inaccurate/false set of choices, 4) presentation of binary choices,etc. So, I thought I would respond to some of the more specific issues raised to ensure clarification of my position and provide food for thought to readers. I will reproduce his post and then embed my thoughts/responses. But please, don’t let this sidetrack you from the purpose of the warning and actions to take.

OK, what exactly would be a correct response by government or individuals? (It was the government that caused the problem to begin with. It was one of them that killed the man. So the government is responsible for the problem. I am not saying that to excuse any behavior of the looters, but they didn’t just start looting out of thin air. The foundation of the problem is rooted in the government there.)
The police have abandoned large areas of several cities. They either can not or will not do anything. (I am not sure if that is true or not. I have no information that there is an official policy or such direction by local government leadership.) How many burglaries, assaults, robberies, rapes, and murders have been committed in the police no-go zones? (No idea, nor does anyone else know what those numbers are…if any.) How many scores settled? ? (No idea, nor does anyone else know what those numbers are…if any.)
Does this sound like France, Sweden, or Germany? (To me it sounds like a police force that allowed an officer to stay on the force WAY too long and other officers who stood by and watched one of their own kill a man. And it sounds like a subset of the population who are frustrated beyond my ability to comprehend it. And violence and destruction that should not be taking place. It sounds like the USA to me…I saw it many times over the decades going all the way back to the civil rights movement.)

If troops, whether Guard or Regulars, are deployed (in spite of Posse Comitatus), will they have empty rifles? (I can’t imagine they would have empty rifles and would not want them to have such. Putting troops in harm’s way and then not allowing them to defend themselves is unconscionable. Putting troops in the streets armed to the teeth is even more unconscionable.)
For how many years was the traditional ROE for troops and civilians in disaster areas “You loot, we shoot”? (No idea since I am not aware of and have not done research on all of those incidents.) Would you expect them to NOT shoot? (My primary opinion of shooting to kill is in defense of life.) Easy to say, if you are not in the line of men facing a mob. (It is easy to say! Because ALL people are free to have their own opinion and to state such. Lack of opinion, morals, ethics, and principles is a sure way to crash a society.) If not that, then what? Allow the mob to beat them down and take their select-fire weapons, or pull out and once again leave the streets and neighborhoods to the looters? (Of course not!) No good choices, but which is worse? (You are setting up a binary choice…and that is extremely limited thinking…tunnel vision at its worse. Allow locals to make the right outcome…not someone in Washington, not me sitting in my chair, and no one else unless they are directly involved.)
Not making a choice is still a choice. (No one ever suggested that. But assuming only binary answers to a situation is worse idea.)
Civilians too will be quickly overwhelmed by sheer numbers unless they use deadly force, and at least one pawnshop owner, yes, a white guy, was arrested. (You are speaking in absolutes and from passion. I understand that but it is quicksand foundation for developing a workable solution to the problem.) After the arrest, the store was gutted. In law, in every jurisdiction I’m aware of, shooting to stop arson is a justifiable use of deadly force, as is the disparity of force of being faced by a mob. (You are talking post-event not at the moment. And I am not familiar with the situation so I will refrain from responding more.) Apparently, MN has a “duty to retreat” law everywhere- except a domicile, so the choices for business owners are death, destitution, or jail. (Once again you are writing from a passionate perspective. “Duty to retreat” is a de-escalation tactic. Leaving the area rather than killing someone, or many people, makes sense in almost every situation…if you highly value life and its potential. Killing in self-defense is a God-given right and should not be suppressed, ever. So duty-to-retreat for a business owner means…life, insurance claims, clear conscious, and a plan to recover…NOT “death, destitution, or jail”!)
https://heavy.com/news/2020/05/john-rieple/ (Not familiar with the situation and it has zero bearing/impact on my opinion and viewpoint regardless of the facts in the matter. I was not respond to or write about a pawn shop owner.)
How about these men, who I’d side with and you will not find this on youtube? Would they be arrested as quickly as the white pawn owner?
https://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/video.php?v=wshhhB2w3tSuRIVkX79A
Is the only alternative to simply leave the law-abiding at the mercy of the mob? (If the media reporting is accurate…I applaud these folks!!!! They are the property owners and have rights. I hope they are well-informed and know what they are doing. If they kill someone there will be legal issues and a life-time of second-guessing and dealing with taking a life…probably PTSD to some degree. That could be a heavy burden. I hope they are trained in all aspects of dealing with this kind of a situation and not just acting out of passion of fulfilling some fantasy of who they think they are.)
Just sayin’.
I wonder if the mayor and other members of the Minnesota Democratic Farmer Labor Party (yes really) have any idea what they are creating? (No. Unquestionably “No!” That city has been out of control for decades. They have a police force that has been out of control for just as long…a police force that they have created and allowed to act as outlaws in many situations over the years. Officer Derek Chauvin has a long documented history of inappropriate and lawless behavior while on their police force. And that police force and city leadership allowed it to continue…if not encouraged it. They bear the blame, the burden, and should receive justice as well.)
( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_Democratic%E2%80%93Farmer%E2%80%93Labor_Party)
Who will tolerate a place where the cops only arrest the basically law-abiding non-violent “offender”, and the citizens are not allowed to defend either their property or themselves. (That is rhetorical in nature and not applicable to this situation at all. But if you are speaking more generally…then the answer is a simple…”no” ) Governors and mayors of the progressive blue states cry about the flight of the tax base, as they become ever more greedy and tyrannical, but so far, their only solution is to demand more bailouts and blame Trump for their own failings. (And that displays their cowardice, lack of morals/ethics, and an absence of leadership. And oh so typical of who they are. Sad!)


This is why these kinds of situations are very volatile…and they seldom have good outcomes…only destruction and sadness…seldom a positive solution. It is also why people should be very slow to react to these situations unless they are directly involved in a life-death situation! Taking a hasty and ill-thought out action can result is damning decisions that will haunt the average person for the rest of their lives.

All of this being said…PLEASE go back a read the Warning and understand its purpose and not get sidetracked by a backseat issue/principle. Stick with what is important in the message.

 

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